Outer circle members, please post your thinking here. Remember to be respectful and focused. Use the blog only to discuss The Great Gatsby. You are either use the leaders' questions OR you can start your own discussion based upon questions, connections, and themes.
In order to receive full credit, you should post at least three times with textual evidence, ie "Quote" (Fitzgerald 20).
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In order to receive full credit, you should post at least three times with textual evidence, ie "Quote" (Fitzgerald 20).
Happy Blogging!
Page #74 Gatsby and Tom come into contact for the first time in the book and they have a strange interaction. Nick and Gatsby are in a club/dinner talking to one of gatsby's friends/connections and nick sees tom. Tom walks up to nick and yells at him for not calling daisy. Gatsby get instantly embarrassed. Do tom and Gatsby have a rough past?
ReplyDeleteto expand on that, on page 83 gatsby asks nick to invite daisy over for lunch so that he can show up and see her. Gatsby specifically does not want Tom to come. Does Gatsby see tom as a blockade to daisy. is he intimidated by tom? what do you guys think Gatsby will do to get past tom and get to daisy?
DeleteTom overall is just not a good person in general and I think that he try and become a problem for Gatsby in the future. Tom already gets mad when he hears the name Daisy so to come to a conclusion since Gatsby is worth more than tome I think Tom will let his mind take over and ruin things with Gatsby and Daisy.
DeleteIn the past we have talked about longing, yearning, and wanting and I thought that the relationship between Daisy and Gatsby represented that well, more in particular, longing. She says to Gatsby, “We haven’t met for many years,” which shows how they’ve had a ton of distance in their relationship. (Fitzgerald 87) Yet with Gatsby always looking at the green light at his dock, it makes me believe that he’s been longing to see Daisy. Answering Hannah’s question as well, I do think that it shows his hidden desires Daisy if he’s been always thinking about her.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Kayleigh that the wealth is something that is a part of him that Gatsby wishes he could get rid of, but feels it stuck with him. In chapter five, there are some good examples of this such as on my page 97, when Gatsby zones out from conversation, and stares around in his house at all his belongings, in a sort of regret because now Daisy is with him, and he feels less of a connection to the possessions, and more to Daisy. Nick explains that Gatsby couldn't stop looking at Daisy, and how he too "stared around at his possessions in a dazed way as though in her actual and astounding presence none of it was any longer real" (Fitzgerald 97).
ReplyDeleteThe relationship between Gatsby and Daisy is very complex. We see that she seemed to be in love with him when she was younger but eventually moved on and married Tom. Now that Gatsby is back in her life it's interesting to see where both of them ended up. Gatsby is very wealthy but longing to be with Daisy again and trying to recreate the past. Daisy has seemed to move on but there is still feelings and wonder about what could've been if she hadn't married Tom. On page 72, Nick observes, "Compared to the great distance that had separated him from Daisy it had seemed very near to her, almost touching her. It had seemed as close as a star to the moon. Now it was again a green light on a dock." This tells me that what they once had was gone, and has faded to nothing more than a green light in the distance. Almost like their relationship was whirlwind and intense but never could've been more than what it was.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion I think that Daisy is actually crying over the shirts because she really does love the shirts. We know that Daisy comes from money and money means everything to her. In this time period looks are everything. Having expensive name brand clothes are very important. So since Gatsby's shirts are so beautiful and probably worth a lot of money, she is really crying over the shirts. We really can see how important money is to Daisy when she comes to visit Nick. ""Is this absolutely where you live, my dearest one?"" (Fitzgerald 85). We can see how Daisy is disappointed in Nick's house because it is small and not very nice. So from this we can infer that she really is crying over the shirts because money is important to her.
ReplyDeleteDaisy comes off as the more down to Earth one of the two compared to Jordan but your comment makes me think that she is also just as shallow but maybe hiding it. Jordan says on page 58, "I was flattered that she [Daisy] wanted to peak to me, because of all the older girls I admired her the most." This shows that Daisy was idolized by Jordan and possibly Jordan molded her personality to mirror Daisy but couldn't quite come off as innocent as her.
DeleteI think that at the end of chapter 5 Daisy is crying over the shirts. I think that because she saw the wealth that Gatsby has, she was reminded of her of her past. Because Daisy came from a wealthy family, seeing such nice shirts brought her back to her past and reminded her of her experiences. Money is part of who Daisy is, she was raised in a very wealthy home. Seeing something so nice and expensive may have hit a soft spot for her. "Daisy's face was smeared with tears, and when I came in she jumped up and began wiping at it with her handkerchief before a mirror." (Fitzgerald 89). This just shows that Daisy was crying and wanted to hide it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this, but I think that there was also a deeper meaning to her crying, in a joyous way. I think that Daisy was also just trying to seem impressed, because she married rich, to Tom, and she has to seem as if she is impressed all the time. It could be a way that she is accidentally releasing emotion for just being so tired of all the fairness. On my page 98, Daisy claims, "It makes me sad because I've never seen such- such beautiful shirts before" (Fitzgerald 98). This may be simply materialistic, showing the time of the people, and how they were consumed in their surroundings, or it could be part of how Daisy might be yearning for something greater than someone showing off their wealth.
DeleteHannah asked "where do you draw the line between love and obsession" while quoting, "You have always been a green light that burns all night at the end of your dock." (page 72). I think that the line between love and obsession is knowing when to let go. Sometimes in love you don't have to let go but there are so many times where it comes to an end and it is time to move on and when there is failure to do so, that can result in obsession. When Daisy says, "We haven't met for many years," and Gatsby replies, "Five years next November" (page 67) That shows that Gatsby has turned his love into an obsession, remembering exact dates and awaiting anniversaries of their break up. Daisy has seemed to move on and doesn't mention dates or seem to have much emotion about his absence in her life.
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ReplyDeleteAnother thought and question I had was, why is Gatsby always trying to talk to Nick? Is he just using him to get to Daisy? In the beginning of Chapter 4, I noticed that Nick said that they have interacted six times in the past month and said, “He was never quite still; there was always a tapping foot somewhere or the impatient opening of a hand.” (Fitzgerald 64) So this makes me think was he nervous to interact with Nick because of his secret desire to see Daisy? Later in Chapter in 5 when Nick does decide to call up Daisy, Gatsby offered him a job ‘on the side’. This made me wonder if it was his way of trying to repay him back for getting his cousin to come out.
I definitely think he is trying to use Nick to get to Daisy. The tapping of his foot and his impatient nature may be because he has been wanting Daisy for a long time and Nick is his shot to get to her. I think that this kind of sucks for Nick because I think he genuinely wants to be friends with Gatsby because when Gatsby offered him money for arranging a tea date with Daisy, he declined keeping things as a friendship and not a business exchange.
DeleteAlyssa was talking about how Gatsby was "throwing himself into money instead of sadness," which I felt strongly related to Hannah's question of "where you draw the line between love and obsession?" To me, it seems that Gatsby is obsessed because in chapter 4 (my page 76) he tells the story of how he and Daisy met in 1917. He says that he had "never seen a girl like that before," obviously in awe by her. Later in chapter 5 Nick mentions to Nick that Daisy may not measure up to Gatsby and who he is now. I think that Gatsby does everything that he does so that he could impress Daisy, but eventually surpasses her socially and still doesn't care. He is obsessed with her because he continually tries to impress and woo her despite her having a husband and despite him becoming way higher than her on the social scale only because he was trying to get her.
ReplyDeleteI think that the green light represent everything Gatsby could of had with Daisy. "... I could have sworn he was trembling. Involuntarily I glanced seaward - and distinguishing nothing except a single green light..." (Fitzgerald 21). When Gatsby is trembling, I believe that he could be crying. This would explain why he is trembling. This also can lead us to believe that the green light is everything he could have had with Daisy because otherwise, he does not have many things to cry about.
ReplyDeleteGatsby is trying to say that he s better than everyone because of how much he puts off of himself and he is trying to impress everyone like with Daisy with the fact of when he brought Daisy to his house and on page 90 ""That huge place there?" she cried pointing "Do you like it?" I love it, but I don't see how you live there all alone"" He is trying to impress her instead of showing that he is just a normal person and he isn't all what he says. He lies to protect the world from seeing the really him.
ReplyDeleteAlso on page 91 Daisy sees his bedroom and and she said that it was the simplest room and I think that says a lot considering that for someone usually spends a lot of time in their bedroom and it shows a lot of personality and for it to be more simple and it shows that he isn't what he shows to other people.
DeleteGatsby comes off as an extravagant man, throwing incredible parties and having excessive wealth. Could Daisy possibly fall short of his expectations he's created in his memories? Nick mentions, "There must have been moments even that afternoon when daisy tumbled short of his dreams-- not through her own fault but because of the colossal vitality of his illusion." (page 74). Maybe Gatsby isn't such an extraordinary man afterall and someone like Daisy is enough for him, or maybe he has dwelled so long on his memories that she has become idolized in his mind. Even Nick notices that Gatsby fantasizing over Daisy and wonders if he will be let down eventually.
ReplyDeleteA motif I noticed in Chapter 5 was the rain and I think it signified the relationship between Daisy and Gatsby. In the first couple pages Nick made notice that, “The day agreed upon was pouring rain,” (Fitzgerald 83). Gatsby makes it obvious that he was nervous in seeing Daisy because he knocks over Nick’s clock and I think it shows that his emotions were representing the storm of the rain. After Daisy and Gatsby talked for a while Nick came back in saying, “It’s stopped raining,” (Fitzgerald 89). I think that shows that they resolved everything because Daisy seemed happy and “Gatsby glowed” according to Nick so I do believe the weather was representative to Daisy and Gatsby's relationship.
ReplyDeleteKarishma makes a good point with the outside of the house being much more detailed, because Gatsby wants to keep an image up of himself. Jason talking about how it is a symbol is stated pretty clearly in chapter 5, when Nick first walks back to Gatsby's house at two in the morning, Nick describes the house as such: "The whole corner of the peninsula was blazing with light which fell unreal on the shrubbery and made thin elongating glints upon the roadside wires" (Fitzgerald 86). This house is usually like this, being lit up, like a party, most of the time, which symbolizes the the time that these characters live in. This is supposed to be the time when everyone is basically in a constant party. But later in the chapter, we see a more accurate representation of the house, and how Gatsby might actually feel about all his wealth. Nick notices how weird it felt that nobody was walking in and out of the house, and claims, "It was strange to reach the marble steps and find no stir of bright dresses in and out the door and hear no sound but bird voices in the trees" (Fitzgerald 96). This all goes with the theme of how this generation just seems to be lost, that when there is a party, everyone seems fancy, and knows what they are doing in life, but after, it seems only the characters like Nick are the ones who are still showing their "realness."
ReplyDeleteWhat role do you think Jordan will play in the rest of the book? On page 78 Fitzgerald writes , ""He wants to know," continued Jordan, "if you'll invite Daisy to your house some afternoon and then let him come over."" (Fitzgerald 78). We know that her purpose so far in the book was to get Daisy and Gatsby to meet. Since she has done her part, what else is there for her to do? Will she become a more predominant character? Or will she stay a minor character?
ReplyDeleteI think Jordan will keep on interacting with Nick. I can kind of see a change of a dynamic character to Jordan from her being dishonest. Nick mentioned in the first couple chapters that, "She [is] incurably dishonest." (Fitzgerald 58) Yet in Chapter 4, she went on telling Nick the truth about what Gatsby wants from him. I don't know if she went along telling him that because she likes the drama that's involved or if in fact she has deeper emotions for Nick and wants to tell him the truth. But I predict she will turn more into a predominant character that will somehow affect Nick again.
DeleteI think that the green light at the end of the dock symbolizes Gatsby's wealth and envy. Gatsby has a lot of money and wealth. "You always have a green light that burns all night at the end of your dock" (Fitzgerald 92). Even though in context, this quote is talking about the actual light at the end of the dock, I think that this statement could also symbolize Gatsby's wealth. It could be saying that at the end of the day, if he doesn't have anything else, he has his money that will carry him through and get him onto the next day. It is something that he can rely on if he has nothing else. Green is a color that also commonly represents envy. Like Kayleigh said towards the beginning of the discussion, wealth is part of Gatsby that he may want to disassociate himself from. Him focusing on the green light so often could also represent his envy and how badly he wants to rid of that association.
ReplyDeleteGoing back to Julia's question about gatsby's car and his wealth, I think that he is coming from not having a lot to becoming something more than what he would've ever thought. Showing off his luxurious things is his way of showing everyone that he made it and worked for what he has. He shows this towards the end of chapter five, "My house looks well, doesn't it? he demanded (Fitzgerald). Although he has a lot of money there is only so much that he can buy to cover up his emotions and obsessions.
ReplyDeleteAsher has a good question regarding the connection gatsby has with the police. I think Some of the rumors spilled at the party has to do with the officer letting gatsby go. One of the people told nick that gatsby was a famous war hero and was a brave man. I think the law and police have lots of respect for these kind of people and that's why he let gatsby go. Another possible reason could be the money. we still have no idea what gatsby does to get all of his money and perhaps some of it could be related to the police and is a well known connection throughout new york.
ReplyDeleteI would like to address Julia's question " Why is Gatsby such a pathological liar? Could this be because of all the rumors surrounding Gatsby?" because I feel like it is very powerful, but I think that it may be questioned wrong. I do not think that he is a liar because of the rumors surrounding him, I think he wants the rumors around him. He seems like he wants to be very extravagant and have people talk about him, this is visible when he takes Nick to lunch and tells him that when he went to war he "tried very hard to die" (page 66 for me). He continues to say that he has an "enchanted life" and tells amazing war stories, that seem almost impossible. He wants a mysterious, large, personality. What is the funniest is that at Gatsby's own party, guests do not recognize him. It goes to show he is just a name and not an actual figure or person, a folk tale, the real Gatsby does not live up to the Gatsby everyone has heard of. I think he is a compulsive liar because he wants to impress Daisy and so he built up this persona and lifestyle, but it ended up eating him whole so his name no longer refers to who he actually is.
ReplyDeletePeople in this time period its all about their money and fame and what they are known for like gatsby and how nick describes him n page 2 " Only gatsby, the man who gives his name to this book, was exempt from my reaction- Gatsby, who represented everything for which I have an unaffected scorn." and he its making him seem so good but then when we get to more of the book we see that he isn't what we thought. He is very highly talked about and when we finally meet him we not only know that he hides his true self but he really isn't like what people say of him. He can be rich and has lots of parties but many people dont even see him at his own party and he just is like a ghost and is not like someone who talks a lot. He is over praised about in the beginning of the book.
ReplyDeleteI think that the green light discussion also connects to Hannah's other question of why Fitzgerald uses so many colors in this book. There are a lot of color descriptions. I think this may be not only for descriptive purposes but because colors symbolize many different emotions, moods, traits, etc. Like I said in a previous comment, green is commonly seen as wealth or envy. The color descriptions throughout book also seem to have a lot to do with the characters wealth. "... Gatsby, in a white flannel suit, silver shirt, and gold colored tie..." (Fitzgerald 84). These colors are generally fairly flashy and extravagant, similar to the parties that Gatsby throws. These colors represent the parties and the wealth of the people being referenced. There are many other sections throughout the book so far that are similar to this in the use of colors.
ReplyDeleteBased on Katie's question, I believe that Fitzgerald chose to write the book from Nick's perspective in order to get the point of view of someone who is both "real" and can still relate to people who have money, and those who don't. Nick currently lives comfortably, but obviously not nearly as comfortable as either Daisy or Gatsby. But, when they all meet up, Nick clearly is the one who has the best social skills when they both try to talk to each other. This demonstrates how the characters with the money, who may represent those in real life who during that time had a lot of money, are not able to socialize with people the same way others might, because they simply haven't done it enough. Nick, being a good mediator, helps break their ice specifically when Daisy and Gatsby don't seem to be connecting. Nick speaks with Gatsby, explaining, "' You're just embarrassed, that's all," and luckily I added: "She's embarrassed too." "She's embarrassed?" he repeated incredulously' (Fitzgerald 93). This shows how these characters simply don't understand love, because although they might have felt it for each other at one point, they don't feel comfortable around each other anymore. Nick mediating shows that although he might not have the money they have, he may just have more wisdom when it comes to being a human being, which seems to be an underlying theme in the book.
ReplyDeleteWe finally meet Gatsby in chapter 3. When we met Gatsby it was at one of his famous house parties. In other chapters we have learned things about it from other people. In chapter 2 we are told by Catherine that Gatsby was a nephew or a cousin of Kaiser Wilhelm's, and that's where all his money comes from. Then at the party, Nick is told some crazy rumors about Gatsby, such as how Gatsby was a spy, how Gatsby was from Germany, and that Gatsby even killed a man. But when Nick and Gatsby finally have a conversation, we learn that none of these rumors were true. Gatsby actually seems pretty normal. Even Nick says, "He's just a man named Gatsby." I think since Gatsby keeps to himself, lives in a glamorous house, and throws wild parties, people think he is hiding something. Instead of asking Gatsby, people just assume things about him.
ReplyDeleteAs Daisy opens the letter she starts crying because Gatsby may have been the one who written and and like it says on page 76 she begain to cry and cry and she did cry about his shirt
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