Outer circle members, please post your thinking here. Remember to be respectful and focused. Use the blog only to discuss The Great Gatsby. You are either use the leaders' questions OR you can start your own discussion based upon questions, connections, and themes.
In order to receive full credit, you should post at least three times with textual evidence, ie "Quote" (Fitzgerald 20).
Happy Blogging!
In order to receive full credit, you should post at least three times with textual evidence, ie "Quote" (Fitzgerald 20).
Happy Blogging!
I was noticing a lot of very strong lines and motifs I wanted to talk about on p.179 (second to last page)
ReplyDelete"They were careless people, Ton and Daisy-- they smashed up things and creatures then retreated back into their money or their cast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made."
Shortly after, nick explains that he feels like he was talking like a child, so why does Nick so heavily describe Daisy and Tom as being like children? This kind of reminds me of Romeo and Juliet: two dumb kids try to create what they think is 'true love' and end up killing people and being really foolish.
Karishma, I appreciate the connection. I think that Nick thought that they were acting childish because not only do daisy leave Gatsby for Tom after Gatsby "went to the war", but also I think he called them that because Nick really was on Gatsby's side even after everything that went down.
Delete(My page 164), "I found myself on Gatsby's side, and alone." From this quote, do you think that the reason that all of the people that had at one point attended Gatsby's parties were not at his funeral because some of them found out who he really was? Or do you think they were just there for the free alcohol and partying?
ReplyDeleteI think it has to do with the Lost Generation question. A lot of the reason why people went to so many parties at that time was to escape themselves and to drink their worries away. Even Gatsby's real identity would have just been another news title and gone with the next cycle. I think it was always about the party and that the rest of this lost generation would just find another party to go to. On p.169, Klipspringer refuses to go to Gatsby's funeral because "there's a sort of picnic or something," which shows no compassion or care for Gatsby's death, and that Klipspringer only cares about getting to the next party.
DeleteOnce Gatsby met Daisy, 5 years back he fell head over heels in love with her and the next 5 years of his life became about winning her back. I think Gatsby was so involved in creating a lifestyle and building himself into the man he wasn't when he lost Daisy that he lost touch with own reality. I think because of his preoccupation with Daisy, his other relationships with people were for convenience, business and image. Even Mr. Wolfshiem who was, "his [Gatsby's] closest friend" (pg 171) said back in chapter 4, "I knew I had discovered a man of fine breeding after I talked with him for an hour. I said to myself: There's the kind of man you'd like to take home and introduce to your mother and sister." (pg 72) and he later says, "We were so thick like that in everything" - he held up two bulbous fingers - always together." (pg 171). But Mr. Wolfsheim's actions completely contradict his words. I think this continues to illuminate the painful reality that Gatsby spent a large majority of his life alone, chasing after things far gone. The kinds of people drawn to him, and in his life were very similar in that way.
DeleteKieran's Q: Going back to the focus questions, what is Fitzgerald trying to say about the nature of sacrifice? In what way does each character demonstrate sacrifice differently?
ReplyDeleteThroughout the book I've seen sacrifice given emotionally, physically, and financially. Gatsby spends most of his days spending money out of the motivation to get Daisy to see him and be impressed by him. While Daisy has sacrificed her happiness to avoid upsetting Tom and/or Gatsby. We can see this in chapter 7 on my page 131, "'You're revolting ... the story of that little spree." I think depending on what people value the least they are willing to give that up for the other luxuries that they yearn to have.
I noticed a lot about nicks and gatsby relationship throughout the book but seen in this quote, it seems as he was truly only one of gatsby's close friends.
ReplyDelete"I found myself on Gatsby's side, and alone. From the moment I telephoned news of the catastrophe to West Egg village, every surmise about him, and every practical question, was referred to me. At first I was surprised and confused; then, as he lay in his house and didn't move or breathe or speak hour upon hour it grew upon me that I was responsible, because no one else was interested--interested, I mean, with that intense personal interest to which every one has some vague right at the end." ( My page 173)
Nick is really surprised but this, but I think that nick actually considered him a friend rather than just some news. People really treated him as he made mistakes and thats what there news was, not of some human being making mistakes. This reminds me of an everyday life of when people see someone make a mistake they are completely investing it even though its not their issue. They make friends but fake friends just to get the gossip about someone. Its not fair, but it still happens.
I also agree with hannah when she says gatsby would be proud that his friend was his friend, making his life complete. He never really had much for himself but he did have nick.
At the very end of the book, p.174, Owl Eyes returns to the story and attends Gatsby's funeral: "he took off his glasses and wiped them again, outside and in" and I was wondering what the significance of glasses and significance of Owl Eyes returning only at these times.
ReplyDeleteOwl Eyes is only there for the authenticity of Gatsby, once when Gatsby's books are real, and again for his funeral to show sympathy that no one cares about Gatsby anymore. Why does Owl Eyes only show up twice? Why was it important for Fitzgerald to bring him back?
Whereas the moment with the glasses brought me back to the T.J. Eckleberg motif, what does this motif mean as we finish the end of this book?
I think something to consider is that there is something to be said about the power of sight. In some situations we think that we aren't showing our pain, our anger, our ambitions, our joys. But even when we seclude ourselves we can been read like a book. I think the symbols of the eyes (whether it be TJ Eckleberg or Owl Eyes) truly highlights what Nick's perspective is lacking. He sees Gatsby's dirty secrets and the vulnerable but lacks to have a sense of pure vision. What I mean by this is that Nicks sees Gatsby's whole story. He cannot focus on just one significant moment in his life. Nick claims, "... I'm inclined to reserve all judgements..." (my page 1) but we can see through the entirety of the book Nick has a hard time keeping his judgements out of his head and to let that alter his actions and opinions of Gatsby and the upper class life style. He struggles to have an unbiased opinion. Because who can manage to keep their own opinion out of their minds when the world around you has so much wrong with it.
Deletethe question of why nick supports gatsby even though he's dead. This gets me thinking of know someone truly knows someone, through the thick and thin people will still be there for yu if they really know or have any sense of idea through his life, makes people love and care about someone . Nick really knew gatsby and liked him and maybe even related to him in a sense makes nicks life worth much more than what he has, he is a friend and a truthful friend.
ReplyDeleteI think by the end of the book the only real relationship seen was Gatsbys and Nicks. I think Nick felt horrible for Gatsby with knowing the truth and from the relationship they built. This is evident in Ch 8 when Nick is worried about Gatsby. "You ought to go away, I said. Its pretty certain they'll trace your car" (pg. 148). Not only does Nick worry about Gatsby in this passage but Gatsby also open up to Nick about Daisy.
DeleteIt is portrayed in the book that nobody goes to Gatbys funeral because they were thinking only of them self. Do you think some people who actually enjoyed Gatsby didn't go to the funeral because they didn't want other people to know they were there. This goes back to the idea of status in the book. "The morning of the Funeral I went up to New York to see Meyer Wolfsheim; I couldn't seem to reach him any other way" (pg. 169-170). This is an example of just one person trying to hide.
ReplyDeleteGatsby's father has barely been spoken of throughout the book, and all of the sudden his dad shows up at the end of the book brings a new light to Gatsby's worth. Nick portrays Gatsby to be a wealthy, angry, sad, lost man who is searching for love. And now Gatsby's dead we see how the love he wanted was in his father. Nobody from any of the parties showed up at the funeral but his father, who hasn't seen his son in years, is there. Nick observes Gatsby's father on my page 172, "After changing my clothes I went next door and found Mr. Gatz walking up and down excitedly in the hall. His pride in his son and in his son's possessions was continually increasing and now he had something to show me."
ReplyDeleteIn the quote "When a man gets killed I never like to get mixed up in it in any way. I keep out. When I was a young man it was different--if a friend of mine died, no matter how, I stuck with them to the end. You may think that's sentimental but I mean it--to the bitter end….Let us learn to show our friendship for a man when he is alive and not after he is dead," he suggested. "After that my own rule is to let everything alone." (My page 180)
ReplyDeleteI think that through wolfshimes, fitzgerald is trying to tell us not to live in the death in the past but to live in though of him even if it might have to be pushed aside. Its also trying to tell us not to treat people like their disposable because they're not here forever, or at least thats my take.
Maybe I'm just really hype to make a connection to music but I've found a couple songs that remind me of The Great Gatsby
ReplyDeleteAngel on Fire-Halsey : this one reminds me of Gatsby's death. The song talks about her being afraid of the attention she once sought out. "I'm standing in the ashes of who I used to be" kind of like Gatsby's reputation fading away after his death and no one really cares about him anymore.
when the party's over- Billie Eilish : The relationship between Daisy and Gatsby. He really gives everything to her and sacrifices all of himself yet he goes home alone and she never lets him go.
There's no question to that it's just a spare annotation I had lying around
Within the author's note on my page 182, I found that some of the title's that Francis Scott Fitzgerald was considering calling the book included, "Among Ash Heaps and Millionaires", "Trimalchio in West Egg", "Gold-Hatted Gatsby", "The High-Bouncing Lover", and "On The Road To West Egg". The definition of Trimalchio is "an arrogant former slave who has become quite wealthy by tactics that most would find distasteful."
ReplyDeleteIf you were Fitzgerald, would you have kept the title "The Great Gatsby" or would you have changed it to one of the others with intent to make the title better suited toward one of the themes?
...Also, do you think these titles could relate to more than just Gatsby?
I think a-lot of times people cant tell their story wether its because its shame-full or brings up certain emotions, but writing it through another person or a mad up character helps a writer cope. Often times its harder for people to understand a story of a person they knew or know but reading it through the perspective of a fiction character can help change there view or understand ones struggle differently.
ReplyDeleteI think Fitzgerald decided to start chapter 9 2 years laters just to show that when theres a real relationship somewhere it affects people for ever or a long time. I think Fitzgerald wanted the reader to realize that Nick actually did care about Gatsby. "After Two years I remember the rest of that day, and that night and the next day...."(pg.193). Starting chapter 9 two years later allows us to believe that Nick did not just forget about him right after he died like everyone else but that Nick held on to what happened still continuing to heal. As the book goes on we notice Nicks relationship forming, but the two years later lets us know that Nick and Gatsbys relationship never falls out as compared to how Gatsbys relationship with everyone else had faded out.
ReplyDelete